How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

gryph
onoid

How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

He trashed my house. Never hit me, or anyone I know of.
Anger/rants/ says I'm (select worst you can think of)
4 days later he still stays in his room
He said he wasn't sorry. He'd do it again because I still haven't learned anything. What was I supposed to learn???
He's not one that stays up for days and days. Eats, sleeps, but now? He should be over the crash.

There's a touch of paranoia.
There's a lot of narcissistic attitude.
And Huge amounts of Anger
No discussion "Shut up. Your stupid. I know what you are going to say before you say it."

I could throw him out. Don't want to. The guy needs help. Professional help.
There are people that would come for intervention.
How do you tell someone they're paranoid without making them paranoid? How do you PERSUADE someone that their mind is playing tricks on them?
My door is locked when I sleep. He's never tried to enter without knocking. But ... anyway.
I have a panic alarm button. There's a 3rd adult in the house but can't hear what's going on on this floor.

Today is the day I know things REALLY aren't right.
He said he'd trash my house again!
That's just crazy. I didn't DO anything except tell him to get out of my face and stop verbally abusing me.

Replies...

forget
suzette

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

you can't remove yourself from that dangerous place.
.....can you stay with a friend or parents?
if I was you.
..I'd get the funk outta there.
my ex was like that.
....and I got tired of accumulating ugly memories, so
I disappeared when he got that way until he came down.
until eventually, I never saw him.
I'm a speed freak, and I've been with 2 paranoid psychotic speed freak men.
you will not convince him.
.....maybe next year he'll have a realization, but not today.

Gryph
onoid

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

well, I hear what you're saying I think.
He's psychotic, and probably dangerous.
But, but, but, but...
It's been 4 days since the trashing episode.
I'm pretty sure he's not using. No one's come over. He's staying in his room.
I think he's got as much a personality disorder problem as the Meth thing. Even he says people can get off the stuff and still be buttheads.
So the other thing is:
It's my house.
I could leave but I'd still come back to a problem.
Meanwhile, he could trash the place cause I did leave.
I could remove him. But this way I know where he is.
If the police came, or I just had his stuff moved, well who knows when and where I'd see him again?
I could try to pay him off. Here's some cash. Go start over.
I don't want to kick him to the curb because I think he's sick. I want to TRY to help him at least before he's "helped out" of the house.
I don't know about cycles. Is this anger stage because he's coming down? Will there be a time in the cycle where he's more receptive? Can he be held for psychiatric observation? We're not married.
Sheesh. He was the one that help me out getting rid of my ex fiancé and that infestation.
I wonder if this episode is his way of asking for help. He said he'd had suicidal thoughts. Not that he was mentioning it to manipulate me. He wasn't going to act on them. He's miserable!
We're talking, you know!, that turmoil and agony, mental pain.
MY crying isn't helping. MY counselor and meds aren't helping HIM. I've gone through all those stages of grief dance. Cha-cha-cha !!! Yeah, maybe I'm doing some bargaining here but...
He needs help.

danimal
55

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

There is no persuading a delusional addict who is meth psychotic, also beware that the cycles of abuse are progressive, mixed with meth psychosis and you have a very real threat to your safety.
Un-thinkable acts of violence are common place when addicts go off the deep end, such as tearing your house up.
His blatant disrespect and ridicule for you is a red flag alert that you may be a target for his violent outbursts.
He does need help, desperately, not the kind that you can give him.
I'd gather my valuables and hit the ground running'.
He's off the hook and you are powerless to change it.
Help is available, but until he actively pursues it...
history WILL repeat. Or get worse.

another
family
messed
up
bymeth

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

These things tend to progress. First damaging belongings, then people. You aren't going to find the magic thing to do/say that's going to make him see his problem. You can spend a lifetime trying.

forget
suzette

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Quote:
It's my house

...and you are allowing someone to treat you like sh!t and live there?
home is supposed to be the safe place, not the weird place.
does he have a momma he can stay with?

Quote:

well who knows when and where I'd see him again?

who cares, if he's a speed freak, you'll never see him again
anyway, we're as bad not using, as using...
....but you can watch him wither and drag you in too, if you stay.

Quote:

I want to TRY to help him

you can't.
...it's like dying, and birth, when it's your time , you do it alone.

Quote:

I don't know about cycles. Is this anger stage because he's coming down?

he's probably been awake for awhile.
...that's when the paranoia, hallucinations, OCB usually comes.
..he might be in the room smoking, it's odorless

Quote:

Will there be a time in the cycle where he's more receptive?

hmmmm, .............is there a time when you, or I will be?
that's hard to say.

Quote:

Can he be held for psychiatric observation?

if he's acting crazy enough, absolutely

Quote:

We're not married.

run
that's just my opinion' I'm kind of tired, and I get dingy
here's response to the same question I wrote to another girl.
..a re run....
....you know...love is never "safe".
it's about trust and bonding, intimacy, communication...
....common beliefs, and like behaviors
you are exposing your soft under belly, and giving your heart to someone and under the best of circumstances....
....it's very frightening!
look at it this way...
....you BF has a mutant head that you don't know about..
it whispers other ideas in his head, unlike ideas the "real" he would have...
..the more he does meth the more his "true" head will shrink and the NEW demon head will grow...
the bad thing is.
you aren't in love with him..
...you love the addicted him.
so if/when he straitens out...
....he won't be this guy.
if he continues to use...
...he will not be the same.
it's very progressive.
...the more he is the other, the less he is himself
when he comes down.
My advice will be painful to your eyes...
...you'll think..."she doesn't know about us" ..well.
I do.
I have watched relationships dissolve in my hands...
....I watched years of me proving my loyalty, honesty, and
monogamy shatter in an instant...
...as men I had known...decades of my life. that knew me as
a kid...begin to really believe I was trying to hurt, humiliate, or deceive them.
when you have been a good woman to a man and he tells you
he knows you don't love him, and you are betraying him.
it's a very painful betrayal.
I doubt my words can stop you from any thing.
...........no one ever changed another by will...
it only builds resentment.
but...I HOPE I can persuade you not to go that way.
or at least REALLY think long and hard about it.
life is Loooooooong when you make the wrong decision..
I wasted my WHOLE LIFE on DRUGS.
.....drugs are all I had...and all I wanted.
I'm qualified to give you the addict's side.....
I would have no painful regret, and
feelings of unaccomplishment and broken dreams, dark, despairing, emptiness, howling, perverted in ways that make you feel...deeply ill...things at your CORE that is YOU is betrayed...your soul hurts when it's worn thin.
you feel ...OWNED.
and whoever loves the addict is also haunted by DARK memories...that you can't get rid of that hurt deeply.
...and you look like an idiot to everyone that watched you self destructing.
leave now!
....ask tnskye, naive newlywed, desperate housewife, spooky, hemetchick, broken, deee....
we are standing here watching you walk into a trap...and you don't believe us...
.....that is so horrible!
we all can see the mac truck that is about to smash up your world, and change your life for the worst.
I feel like maybe I died using meth sometimes,
.... because no one ever hears me warning them!
also...
Try SFJ's web site
it's really informative about stages....and why.
educate yourself.
...but you already know the answer if he's abusive
that's all you should need to respond

Gryph
onoid

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

That was really hard to read.
every word was heartfelt I'm sure.
You know what turned it for me?
When you said people just kept walking into it like you hadn't said anything.
I did go to the website.
That's the monster's face I'll see instead of his.
Ok. I'm going to sleep.
I'm going to call the local rehab in the morning.
I'm going to get very clear options for him.
Go get help. And move.
Or just move.
I say that now.
I don't want him to leave.
But he's that monster.
Thank you.
All of you.

richs
wife

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

YOU SHOULD BE VERY SCARED, MY HUSBAND WAS THE SWEETEST MAN IN THE WORLD TILL ONE DAY HE STARTED BE LITTLEING ME ANY THING I DID WAS NOT RIGHT STAYING UP ALL NIGHT STATED EVERYONE WAS OUT TO GET HIM. That's when he started trashing my house any thing that I liked he destroyed
till one day I confronted him, he said he'd kill me if I called the cops---when I found out he took money from my account I took his bank card away he gave me my first black eye---then finally I had enough I told him to leave
he threw lamp oil all over the house and said held burn my house down---he pulled the cables off my car so I couldn't leave.
be careful, if you still love him, call the cops get help for him because with out some help ---he'll get worse and you might die.

take care and watch your back

another
family
messed
up
bymeth

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Be careful of being the one who is 'doing' rehab for him. Let him find his options. Let him call. He has to want it bad enough to do that. It isn't recovery if you're making his appointments and he's going to get you off his back or get you to stay.

calypso
1047

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Like Danimal said...
It does get worse.
I'm living proof.
And like forgetsuzette said-RUN
I wasn't married, but I didn't run.
We are no longer together...but he's facing trial in September for 2nd degree kidnapping of me.

If he's not ACTIVELY wanting recovery, Then chances are he'll only resent you and become more violent.

Again this is only my opinion.

chris
gonz

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

wow..
is this ever the old familiar tune.
hate what they do but still love the man. that was me!!!
I lost a son through all that and finally made him leave. He was murdered by another woman and her son just 1 year later.
well he's home and safe now... in an urn.

get out while the getting is good.

Loraura

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Quote:
The guy needs help. Professional help.

You are right. He does need professional help. You're not a professional (or at least, not the one he needs!)
You can not change him, but you can change you. You need to STICK TO YOUR GUNS. You said that you will tell him that he needs to get help, and move. Or just move.
And that is ABSOLUTELY right.
He needs to go. He is abusing you. Verbal abuse IS emotionally devastating. Trashing the house can and does easily escalate to trashing YOU.
Don't cave in. You will end up being hurt even further.

JUST
CATS

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Yes, the guy needs professional help, but that does not mean that you should live, locked up in your house, waiting for him to hurt you or somebody else.

He is out of control and will not comprehend anybody telling him that he is paranoid... YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING NOW, OR YOU MAY END UP DEAD.

We all love our addicts too, but that does not mean that we have to fear for our lives, in our own homes. You cannot talk sense into someone who has their brains scrambled by drugs.

Get out now, or have him removed. If you don't then somebody is going to get hurt, because he is not rational at all!

Maybe he needs to sit in jail awhile, without meth, and realize what he has done, and why he is there? You cannot force him into rehab. It's just, not gonna work.

Tender
hearts
KS

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Quote:
I don't want to kick him to the curb because I think he's sick.

I was sick and didn't get any help till everyone kicked me to the curb. I was face down in the dirt with no where else to go, so to speak of.
You're 'hooked' to him because he helped you out of the situation with the ex. That's why I try real hard not to put myself into situations that end up making me feel 'indebted' to someone.

I had one (was also married to an addict once upon a time) who would trash the house. Well, that's how it started. I'm pretty sure I ended up with fractured ribs one night after he was done pounding on me, but I was terrified to go to ER because I knew there would be questions and he'd beat me that much worse the next time.

I remember the day he threw me down the basements steps, and as I laid there sobbing, I heard his footsteps on the stairs and I knew I was going to die. He grabbed me by my hair and was going to start pummeling my head into the concrete, but paused a minute, called me a foul name, said I was worthless, and walked off.
Five years I hung with that.
I couldn't help him, nor could anyone else. He went through rehab and went right back to the meth.
Last I heard from him was 8 years ago, and he called me to tell me he had full blown AIDS.
The violence WILL escalate, you can NOT help him, and you may very well end up dead. 'Nuf said.

Gryph
onoid

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Ok.
I'm still processing all this.
This morning I called the local rehab, got pricing for 28 days, also got a number for a professional intervention team. Yep sounds like I'm throwing money at the problem, huh?

AND I know I have to tell him he's gone either way so this doesn't become a bargaining chip.

And I probably need more therapy than 2 or 3 times a year, ya think?

Because I really want to say "You're home and security will be waiting when you come out. You won't have to live with the addicts which are the only ones that would take you in."

Tell me again why I can't say that?
I mean I see the Monster picture I printed out, that I posted on my wall.
But.. butbutbut... I'm not saying I'm qualified!
But I think this house could be a safe place to repair.

I know what I thought the relationship was, is over, gone. Whatever comes out of it, at best, will be starting from scratch, and that is likely to not be anything but a friendship. I wish I knew there would be a safe place for him after the 28 days. I could be part of the scene that actually triggers his addiction. But it's also where he helped me create a home. ... But what if I'm not a trigger, what if... Ack!!!

Maybe if you all told me more reasons
besides,
1. it's a "no bargaining" position
2. this place could be a trigger, although I think it's the safest place he has had yet. Esp. if no tolerance position after rehab is enforced.
3. ???

Maybe I could leave it as "after rehab we can consider what you need. If our counselors say it's ok, and each of us then want to, it might be an option. Would that be a fair statement?

I know there's some mental anguish and pain behind that door.
I'm crying for what I thought I had that maybe never was.
I've taken down some of the irreplaceable glass.
I'm wearing the panic button.
I'm sober.

I could take my birds to be boarded. Leave town for a couple of days, leave a note saying "consider rehab",
(Of course I'd be going to friends that are in the process of moving. Get some practice in boxing stuff up? He is jealous of my newly wed friend. I witnessed their marriage! We got into it on the way back and he drove 120mph. 4 months ago. Yeah, I know that should've been it then. )

The 3rd adult would have the option to leave also. And probably would.
I'm wondering if he was here alone.
Saw what he was about to throw away.
He wanted to do interventions on some of the drugees he knew just 3 months ago. I wouldn't put it past them to supply, but...

Or, staying until he comes out?
I still have to talk to the pro intervention people.
The rehab guy said with a stranger involved the addict is on better behavior. And I'm hoping if the answer is "no" then moving him without the police involved would be the next step.

I understand what someone said about police being not a bad thing to happen. But I'm trying to set it up so there's the least amount of damage done with the best outcome.

It's time to make that next call.

I want again to say thank you for being here.
Domestic Violence agencies would have one answer,
the Police another, Friends yet another.
You guys are the best counsels I think because it's all that and more. Thank you.

Loraura

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Quote:
But I think this house could be a safe place to repair.

Sure, for HIM. Not for you.

Here's some information on triggers, and how they work. There are additional links at the bottom of the page to understand how meth effects the brain while using, and while trying to recover.

Triggers

You are doing all the worrying about what if, where will he go, what will happen.

IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM, and no matter what you planned out, there's no guarantee that he'd even 1)GO to rehab or 2) Complete it.
28 days is just the tip of the iceberg. Meth causes the destruction of the brain chemical Dopamine, which studies have shown take an ex-meth user ~18 months to regain 80% of normal activity levels.

You will be dealing with someone with a brain chemical imbalance for months and that's ONLY if he stays clean!

You are simply not equipped to do this for him.

JUST
CATS

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Like Loraura said, you are doing all of worrying about things, and you shouldn't be. It is not your problem. Does he give a damn about you and what happens to you??? Obviously not.

You think that everything is going to go down all sugar coated, and I guarantee it is not.

You need to get out of the house and come back with a police escort who is going to tell him that he has to leave. If you confront a paranoid meth addict on your own, I can guarantee, that sh*t will hit the fan. You may end up, dead.

Listen, to your yourself, in these posts. You talk about giving him a choice to go to rehab. First of all-More than likely he will not agree to rehab. If he does agree to go, that does NOT mean that he will stay clean.

A meth addict has to hit their lowest before they will want to stay clean. You cannot force them into rehab, and you cannot force them to want to stay clean.

It takes a lot for a, addict, to hit their all time low and stay clean. They may be clean, and they fall off the wagon. Several at our site here, have relapsed recently.

My ex fiance, went to jail for a month, came out, went straight back to meth, worse than ever, knowing that if he doesn't get clean, he faces prison time. Where is he now?- In prison for the next six years.

He swore to me that he didn't want to ever use meth again... Lesson #1 a meth addict will lie, lie, lie to cover their addiction. The meth is more important to them, then you are. That is the hardest lesson to learn.

Anyhow, you need to stop wanting to see it, the way that you see it. Meth addiction is just down and dirty and that is all there is to it.

It is not going to be easy or safe to get him, the help that he needs, and you are not dealing with someone that is in their right mind.

Please stop sugar coating the whole situation, and see it for what it is. If you do not start looking at this situation for what it "really is" then you are going to be putting yourself in grave danger.

imlost
inky

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Quote:
How do you tell someone they're paranoid without making them paranoid? How do you PERSUADE someone that their mind is playing tricks on them?

You can't. You will never convince him what he is thinking, what he is seeing isn't real. It is real to him. Very real.
You can't.

Quote:
Can he be held for psychiatric observation?

With you not being married, not being related, I am just not sure.
If he threatens suicide , you can call 911.
The police will come- they will observe- if he is really obviously a danger to himself or others due to mental conditions, they will take him to a hospital- Psyche ward-where he can be held up to 72. At that time, he will be seen by a doctor, given a half assed attempt at best to see if maybe he would like help.
If he says no, they release him as soon as he says I don't want to die or kill anyone.
No matter if he is talking to the wall.
Believe it or not, it isn't against the law to be mental.
You just can't be mental and hurt people.
Now for the busting up of the walls- that may be jail- but then again, if he is in jail and exhibits signs of mental illness, they will transfer him.
To a mental health facility.
That may be your best option because then it would not be strictly up to him to take the help- I am not sure.
Ask your local law enforcement or call your local mental health facility and find out.
Other than that-Ditto what Dan said

Quote:
There is no persuading a delusional addict who is meth psychotic, also beware that the cycles of abuse are progressive, mixed with meth psychosis and you have a very real threat to your safety.

There is no talking reason to one who has no reasoning abilities.
Save you first - then go from there as to what you can do to maybe save him.
It really maybe jail/law is your best option.
I'm sorry.
But this is indeed your reality. You can't talk him down.
He will not believe you.
and most likely not anyone else either until he gets some meds.

Rachel
sue76

Re: How scared should I be with a Meth psychotic?

Quote:
Maybe if you all told me more reasons besides,
1. it's a "no bargaining" position
2. this place could be a trigger, although I think it's the safest place he has had yet. Esp. if no tolerance position after rehab is enforced.
3. ???

You say that you know that things will never be the same. But I think that somewhere deep inside of you, you are thinking the same things that the rest of us loved ones thought at one time. " The person I love will be different than the rest of these addicts. He will - fill in the blank and he will not- fill in the blank."
I am here to tell you that even if you believe this in the depths of your soul, that what everyone is telling you is the truth. 28 days is a great start at not using. But, 28 days is not the magic cure that makes him all better. Recovery is hard work.

Quote:
I'm wondering if he was here alone. Saw what he was about to throw away.

In our way of thinking, we believe that if someone left us that would be our wake up call. Sometimes it is the wake up call that people need. More times than not though it has the opposite outcome. Just think, he will have all day and night to sit around and get high and no one to bytch, nag or complain about it. You see, in his mind, meth is the end all be all right now. It is his wife and you are his mistress.